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Post by Madfox on Jun 16, 2016 18:58:46 GMT
I have like. Half a song. There's a lot more to write, but before I continue, I wanted to see what you all thought. It's a capella, sorry XD drive.google.com/file/d/0B5AyOa8g7eR1bUIySDZfcVFxazQ/view?usp=sharingJust one more day! Till the rumors fade away. Just one more night! Till he pays for his crimes with his life! I was the victim, but I won’t be stricken By the same contradiction that started this brawl! I’ll take him down, turn my verdict around, The truth will be found and I’ll end this all! I’m not the same man I was when this began. All I can do is play the cards in my hand. But how can I know that I’m doing this right When Apollo has suffered so I can fight? Apollo, an orphan, was taken in Not for his good, but for mine… Isn’t this a story I’ve heard before? Trucy, his sister, became my daughter But it’s my fault she lost her father Isn’t this a story I’ve lived before? Didn’t Miles Edgeworth feel the same? Aren’t I playing von Karma’s game? Didn’t Miles Edgeworth get his badge So people like me would meet their match? (spoken) I can fix this! I can put his mother on the jury. Then he’ll have a family. They’ll have a family. I… I’d be breaking the law again… But this time Apollo’s career wouldn’t be on the line. It would be mine. His mother is blind, but I can see I can return her memory! (sung) Lamiroir-- no, Thalassa Gramarye, Will see her children with her own eyes! (spoken) Trucy… And Apollo… I can fix what I did to you!
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Post by lawyernerd on Jun 16, 2016 23:21:37 GMT
Ooooooooooh I like this a lot! It references how Phoenix is self-aware of the shintoty things he's done. It shows the audience that he actually has turmoil over his decisions, and makes him come off as less of a douchebag. Which is our job because Capcom will never ever acknowledge how much they messed his character up in AJ.
I don't know what you mean by this only being half of the song, though. Maybe it would be good to include a more overt reference to Manfred von Karma to further clarify the title of the song, but this seems like a good, whole piece. Obviously, I don't know what else you're planning to include in it, but I like it as is. It's realistic, well-written, and well-paced; it doesn't feel like the decision Phoenix is reaching is forced or rushed. You could just stop it there, you know?
I don't understand the whole bit with Trucy, though. Phoenix was obviously a dickbag because he made Apollo unknowingly risk his career with a piece of forged evidence and used the kid like a chess piece. Maybe I'm missing something, but that doesn't seem to apply to Trucy. I never got the impression he was a bad father... He seemed to care about her, and never hurt her, so what is it he's done to her?
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Post by apollojustice4all on Jun 16, 2016 23:45:05 GMT
I have listened to this 5 times in a row I am in LOVE
2 things, First I feel as if after "They'll have a family" it would be natural for him to say "even if it doesn't include me". Like if they had Lamiroir and Apollo and Trucy knew, than they wouldn't need Phoenix and their little found family that they have but I'm not sure if that would come across
Secondly the line "Just one more night! Till he pays for his crimes with his life! " should be changed. I think this line is supposed to reference Kristoph but I don't like it for a couple reasons. For one, if it is Kristoph then, it doesn't make sense. Kristoph is already in jail for murder. He can't pay with his life anymore than he already is. Even then the phrase to pay with your life sounds like it's some sort of plot to kill Kristoph rather than life in prison or the death scentence. I mean I know AJ Phoenix is a jerk but he still wouldn't kill anyone.
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Post by Lumos314 on Jun 17, 2016 2:31:40 GMT
I like it! I do agree it needs more, though.
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Post by Shai on Jun 17, 2016 5:50:09 GMT
Ohh this is nice! But I feel like putting characters (and naming the song after Von Karma) like Von Karma and Edgey, whose names aren't mentioned even once in the game, into such a plot-important song wouldn't make much sense for a lot of potential listeners. Even though it's highly doubtful that people outside of the AA community would discover this, it's still a good idea to keep this musical friendly to newcomers of the game/series. By putting in Miles and Von Karma, it shuts out those who haven't played the first game at the least.
To add on, it would take quite a bit of knowledge of backstory and analyzing to realize that Phoenix could be compared to Von Karma, and most would not readily agree to such an interpretation.
Also, this song could confuse people who have played the games already. Even I got confused when the song was called Von Karma's Game because I know he wasn't in AJ.
But this soliloquy is absolutely wonderful for my analytical mind, so perhaps you could just make a reference to Von Karma instead of outright mentioning him and even going so far as to naming the song after him? I think it would be golden if this song was kept in the musical.
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Post by apollojustice4all on Jun 17, 2016 21:27:21 GMT
I took some time to rewrite this with everyone's suggestions in mind. I kept Von Karma in the song at the start but then the focus shifts to Kristoph. Instead of Von Karma's game, we could probably change this to "A Story I've Heard Before"
Just one more day! Till the rumors fade away.
Just one more night! Till the truth can be brought back to light!
I was the victim, but I won’t be stricken
By the same contradiction that started this brawl!
I’ll take him down, turn my verdict around,
The truth will be found and I’ll end this all!
I’m not the same man I was when this began.
All I can do is play the cards in my hand.
But how can I know that I’m doing this right
When Apollo has suffered so I can fight?
Apollo, an orphan, was taken in
Not for his good, but for mine…
Isn’t this a story I’ve heard before?
Trucy, his sister, became my daughter
But it’s my fault she lost her father
Isn’t this a story I’ve lived before?
All these years later, it might sound insane
Me and Von Karma are one and the same
Playing each night I kept my perfect record
Look back on my past and you'll see how it's checkered
With lies and deceit that have beset my journey
And you might myself in another defense attorney
Kristoph and I and our forged evidence
Set in play before they gained relevance
Have you noticed the pattern? Have you noticed the trend?
Forgery led to a defense career's end
But wait, there is more, now the story does worsen
To deliver the forgery, we used the same person
Sure I didn't do it, but I know it's my fault
That Zak was the victim of Deadly Assault
What if I hadn't keept my connection with Kristoph?
3 miles long of "What if's" I could list off
(spoken) I can fix this! I can put his mother on the jury. Then he’ll have a family. They’ll have a family. Even if it doesn't include me... I… I’d be breaking the law again… But this time Apollo’s career wouldn’t be on the line.
It would be mine.
His mother is blind, but I can see
I can return her memory!
(sung) Lamiroir-- no, Thalassa Gramarye,
Will see her children with her own eyes!
(spoken) Trucy… And Apollo… I can fix what I did to you!
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Post by gyakutentrial on Jun 17, 2016 21:49:17 GMT
can i add some melodies to this?
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Post by gyakutentrial on Jun 17, 2016 21:52:43 GMT
can i add some melodies to this? whoops i didn't mean changing it just adding some backing tracks and stuff. :^)
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Post by Kai on Jun 18, 2016 3:29:39 GMT
Fun fact. If you look at the lyrics of my closer: I'll stand along the EDGE with you and I'll fight for all it's WORTH
I had fun being creative.
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germangirl
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Every day is the day to feel like a Fräulein.
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Post by germangirl on Jun 18, 2016 10:42:45 GMT
This is really cool! But, yeah, I would also say it shouldn't be named after Von Karma. When I found this thread I was literally like "Huh, what? But there is no Von Karma in AJ...?" But the song is extremely nice!
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Post by Madfox on Jun 18, 2016 14:10:49 GMT
Sorry, I didn't know what to name it. XD
I looooooove what you did with this!!! I'm so excited!!!
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Post by Madfox on Jun 18, 2016 14:35:38 GMT
I have a little more. It occurred to me just now that this song didn't really establish who Zak is or how he is relevant. So, uh... Yeah. I don't have time to look at that right now.
I've spent so much time steeped in revenge That I can't see where the old me went But something more potent is arising in me I am more than a forgery!
I don't need a badge to be who I once was The Phoenix in me will rise from the ashes!
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Post by Madfox on Jun 18, 2016 14:41:02 GMT
Also I got confused by the line "another defense attorney". I thought you were calling Von Karma a defense attorney rip
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Post by Madfox on Jun 19, 2016 3:48:34 GMT
can i add some melodies to this? whoops i didn't mean changing it just adding some backing tracks and stuff. :^) Well, this is nowhere near finished, so I wouldn't want you to spend a lot of time and then have it be destroyed? You could do it, but you'd have to be prepared.
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Post by Madfox on Jun 19, 2016 4:34:50 GMT
Here are a few more edits!!
Just one more day! Till the rumors fade away. Just one more night! Till the truth can be brought back to light! I was the victim, but I won’t be stricken By the same contradiction that started this brawl! I’ll take him down, turn my verdict around, The truth will be found and I’ll end this all!
I’m not the same man I was when this began. All I can do is play the cards in my hand. But how can I know that I’m doing this right When Apollo has suffered so I can fight?
Apollo, an orphan, was taken in Not for his good, but for mine… Isn’t this a story I’ve heard before? Trucy, his sister, became my daughter But it’s my fault she lost her father Isn’t this a story I’ve lived before?
After all that I've been through, it's hard to see But the ghosts of my past have become part of me Playing each night I was known for perfection Look at my past and you'll have no objection I'm playing the game of the man I despise Does the curse of von Karma shine in my eyes? The dark age of the law started with me How am I different from those other attorneys?
Kristoph and I used the law as our weapons, Forgeries swapping justice with deception Have you noticed the pattern? Have you noticed the trend? Forgery led to a defense career's end But wait, it gets worse, there's more blood on our hands To take down each other we used the same man I didn't do it, but I know it's my fault That Zak was the victim of Deadly Assault. Their family was shattered and I made it worse, I have become the Gramarye curse!
(spoken) I can fix this! I can put Thalassa on the jury. Then they’ll have a family... Even if it doesn't include me. I… I’d be breaking the law again… But this time Apollo’s career wouldn’t be on the line.
It would be mine.
His mother is blind, but I can see I can return her memory! (sung) Lamiroir-- no, Thalassa Gramarye, Will see her children with her own eyes!
(spoken) Trucy… And Apollo… I will fix what I did to you!
I've spent so much time steeped in revenge That I can't see where the old me went But something more potent is arising in me I am more than a forgery!
There are innocent people for me to defend
I have to do this for my old friend!
I don't need a badge to be who I once was The Phoenix in me will rise from the ashes!
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germangirl
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Post by germangirl on Jun 19, 2016 6:18:26 GMT
This. Is. Damn. Cool.
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Post by lawyernerd on Jun 20, 2016 14:58:04 GMT
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Post by apollojustice4all on Jun 20, 2016 15:03:15 GMT
A couple things:
First, I noticed you changed the line
"But wait, there is more, now the story does worsen
To deliver the forgery, we used the same person"
to "But wait, it gets worse, there's more blood on our hands To take down each other we used the same man"
The problem with this being that the person in my original lyrics was referring to Trucy and not Zak or whatever, as she literally delivered the forgery to the defense in both 4-1 and the Gramarye murder trial. I don't know if it was just you who misinterpreted my words there or if it was jut generally unclear. Can some other people on this thread confirm on which one it was?
Second, we should probably change the bit of dialouge where Phoenix says,"But this time Apollo’s career wouldn’t be on the line.
It would be mine."
from career to life as it wouldn't really be his job on the line. I mean if the Borscht Bowl Club let him in after he supposedly forged evidence, something tells me rigging a jury would be no big deal to them. The thing that Phoenix is putting at risk here is his personal life, the way he's viewed in the public eye, the way people treat him, etc. It's still important and a big risk, it's just not related to him getting fired.
Third, and this is more of something to note, the line "Lamiroir-- no, Thalassa Gramarye,
Will see her children with her own eyes!" is based off of an assumption on the pronunciation of Gramaye and based on the Pronunciation thread it seems the jury is still out on how it's going to be pronounced. It works for now but that may have to be changed later.
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germangirl
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Every day is the day to feel like a Fräulein.
Posts: 43
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Post by germangirl on Jun 20, 2016 15:09:13 GMT
What does seconded even mean?
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Post by lawyernerd on Jun 20, 2016 15:13:01 GMT
What does seconded even mean? Seconding is like agreeing. Saying "i like ice cream" and someone saying that they "second that" means that they're basically saying "I like ice cream too, I was just about to say that!" It's a way to express the same idea without actually repeating the idea. Er, am I making sense?
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germangirl
New Member
Every day is the day to feel like a Fräulein.
Posts: 43
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Post by germangirl on Jun 20, 2016 18:18:12 GMT
What does seconded even mean? Seconding is like agreeing. Saying "i like ice cream" and someone saying that they "second that" means that they're basically saying "I like ice cream too, I was just about to say that!" It's a way to express the same idea without actually repeating the idea. Er, am I making sense? Yes, you are!
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Post by lawyernerd on Jun 20, 2016 18:23:27 GMT
Seconding is like agreeing. Saying "i like ice cream" and someone saying that they "second that" means that they're basically saying "I like ice cream too, I was just about to say that!" It's a way to express the same idea without actually repeating the idea. Er, am I making sense? Yes, you are! Cool! Yeah, if you ever don't understand a phrase or what we're saying, don't be afraid to ask! I'm sure I speak for all of us that we'll help you out without being rude about it. ('Cause I can't even speak two languages, so no matter what, you're ahead of me!)
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germangirl
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Every day is the day to feel like a Fräulein.
Posts: 43
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Post by germangirl on Jun 20, 2016 19:43:25 GMT
Cool! Yeah, if you ever don't understand a phrase or what we're saying, don't be afraid to ask! I'm sure I speak for all of us that we'll help you out without being rude about it. ('Cause I can't even speak two languages, so no matter what, you're ahead of me!) Thanks a lot!
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Post by Madfox on Jun 21, 2016 11:49:36 GMT
A couple things: First, I noticed you changed the line "But wait, there is more, now the story does worsen To deliver the forgery, we used the same person" to "But wait, it gets worse, there's more blood on our hands To take down each other we used the same man" The problem with this being that the person in my original lyrics was referring to Trucy and not Zak or whatever, as she literally delivered the forgery to the defense in both 4-1 and the Gramarye murder trial. I don't know if it was just you who misinterpreted my words there or if it was jut generally unclear. Can some other people on this thread confirm on which one it was? Second, we should probably change the bit of dialouge where Phoenix says,"But this time Apollo’s career wouldn’t be on the line. It would be mine." from career to life as it wouldn't really be his job on the line. I mean if the Borscht Bowl Club let him in after he supposedly forged evidence, something tells me rigging a jury would be no big deal to them. The thing that Phoenix is putting at risk here is his personal life, the way he's viewed in the public eye, the way people treat him, etc. It's still important and a big risk, it's just not related to him getting fired. Third, and this is more of something to note, the line "Lamiroir-- no, Thalassa Gramarye, Will see her children with her own eyes!" is based off of an assumption on the pronunciation of Gramaye and based on the Pronunciation thread it seems the jury is still out on how it's going to be pronounced. It works for now but that may have to be changed later. 1. RIP that makes more sense. But Trucy wasn't mentioned at all in that stanza and Zak was so I thought "delivered" was figurative lol 2. I meant Phoenix's job as a lawyer. Sorry if that was unclear. Saying his life is on the line would imply he has something to lose, or that he's at risk of dying. All the jury rigging would do is ensure that he'll never be allowed back in a court of law. 3. I gotta stop making narrow-minded cultural assumptions
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Post by apollojustice4all on Jul 5, 2016 22:55:05 GMT
More Notes!
1 I think we may need to revise the stanza:
Apollo, an orphan, was taken in Not for his good, but for mine… Isn’t this a story I’ve heard before? Trucy, his sister, became my daughter But it’s my fault she lost her father Isn’t this a story I’ve lived before?
Because without the handy knowledge of that one analysis, in this context it sounds as if we're drawing parallels between Apollo and Edgeworth and Trucy and Franziska rather than both Apollo and Trucy with Edgeworth
2 I really need y'alls input on if everyone mistook the person as Zak over Trucy and it wasn't just Madfox. If not then we can entertain the possibility of keeping my original line. If yes, then we're gonna need to change it to make it more clear. Idk something like: "Now watch as the webs that we've woven unfurl To deliver our forgeries we used the same girl"
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Post by Shai on Jul 5, 2016 23:37:53 GMT
I didn't mistake that line for Zak--Trucy was the one I thought of x3
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Post by Madfox on Jul 6, 2016 2:49:39 GMT
Just made loads of edits, trying to take what you guys said into consideration! Just one more day! Till the rumors fade away. Just one more night! Till the truth can be brought back to light! I was the victim, but I won’t be stricken By the same contradiction that started this brawl! I’ll take him down, turn my verdict around, The truth will be found and I’ll end this all! I’m not the same man I was when this began. All I can do is play the cards in my hand. But how can I know that I’m doing this right When Apollo has suffered so I can fight? Innocence greeted with manipulation I earned his trust with misinformation He was an orphan so I took him in Not for his good but for mine! Isn't this a story I've heard before? After all that I've been through, it's hard to see But the ghosts of my past have become part of me Playing each night I was known for perfection Look at my past and you'll have no objection I'm playing the game of the man I despise Does the curse of von Karma shine in my eyes? The dark age of the law started with me What kind of man have I turned out to be? Kristoph and I used the law as our weapons, Forgeries swapping justice with deception Have you noticed the pattern? Have you noticed the trend? Forgery led to a defense career's end! And we both used the same girl to deliver that curse! Trucy's involvement makes this whole thing worse! We both used my daughter to take down the guard Of a lawyer desperate for a trump card. But wait, it gets worse, there's more blood on our hands To take down each other we used the same man I didn't do it, but I know it's my fault That Zak was the victim of Deadly Assault. I'm the one who destroyed their family! They're confused and alone because of me! (spoken) No. Kristoph and I are not the same. (sung) I am not playing von karma's game! I've made mistakes! But there's no time to mope! It's not too late-- I know there is hope! (spoken) Trucy and Apollo... I can fix what I did to you! I can bring their family back together. Thalassa Gramarye can see now... And this case is sure to bring back her memories. I still need a jury, and she needs her kids I can make up for everything that I did! They'll have a family... With or without me I have to do this for Apollo and Trucy. There is a difference between now and then But can I break the law again? Before it was Apollo's badge I put on the line But tomorrow it will be mine! I've spent so much time steeped in revenge That I can't see where the old me went But something more potent is arising in me I am more than a forgery! It's time to point Justice in the right direction Towards finding the truth and yelling objection! I don't need a badge to be who I once was The Phoenix in me will rise from the ashes! Just one more day! Till this blindness goes away. Just one more night! Till the truth can be brought back to light! And finally I will bring Justice for All!
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Post by gyakutentrial on Aug 3, 2016 21:55:47 GMT
okay update on this: i know skyenight IRL (i convinced them to get in on this) and we will be working out the melody this saturday. I'm hoping to make it semi-official. Are there any other changes anyone wants to make to the lyrics or suggestions to the melody?
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Post by anxioushiei on Aug 4, 2016 2:10:40 GMT
I really like the current lyrics. And I don't know how it happened, but I'm definitely glad that the bit talking about Thalassa being blind was fixed, since by the last case she could physically see. My only other complaint is that in the newest draft, you can't tell if Phoenix is speaking all of the last part of the song or if he starts singing again because wherever he starts singing hasn't been marked.
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Post by Lumos314 on Aug 6, 2016 14:43:38 GMT
OH MY GOSH THIS IS FREAKING GORGEOUS. It really reminds me of Decree of the Prosecutor, which is PERFECT for this. Just... AHHHH Small notes: I actually thought that the "man" was Misham. XD But I like the current status of that verse because it's ambiguous yet defined enough to be either or whatever and yeah. Can we make it "Zak was the victim of THAT deadly assault"? It feels a little awkward to me as is. "Justice for all" at the end should definitely follow the melody of the original song. Just those notes would be perfect. Lastly, I keep feeling reminded of "One Day More" from Les Mis so it would be great if we made sure the melody doesn't sound like it. I'm just thinking in terms of the lyrics right now, though, so the melody might already be distinctly different. This is awesome so far and I'm really excited to see how it turns out!!
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